Education Untapped
Education Untapped
Safeguarding – Importance of protecting yourself and others when working in safeguarding roles
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Jo Cassey, Managing Director of Cognus, Hayley Cameron, Education Safeguarding Manager and Nick English, Principal Educational Psychologist explore the topic of reflective supervision, along with three DSL's from the Local Area.
Welcome to Cognus Education Untapped Podcast, the show where we bring you experts and leading practitioners in the field of education.
Speaker 6Hello and welcome along to another episode of Education Untapped, which is part of a series of occasional podcasts from Cognus Limited, which aim to explore areas of professional practice, themes, and issues within the educational landscape that we hope will be of interest and generate debate amongst educational practitioners. My name is Jo Cassey, and I have the privilege of being Managing Director of Cognus, which is a company wholly owned by the London Borough of Sutton. We deliver the majority of educational services for the Borough of Sutton, but also trade with other local authority areas in many of our 29 services. Today I am joined by two colleagues from our leadership team. That's Hayley Cameron, who is our Education Safeguarding Manager, and Nick English, Principal Educational Psychologist. And together we will be exploring the topic of reflective supervision. But before we get into that, I'd like to invite Hayley and Nick to say hello and tell us a little bit about themselves as well as their work in relation to reflective supervision. So first of all, Hayley.
Speaker 5Thanks, Jo. So I'm Hayley Cameron, the Education Safeguarding Manager at COGNUS, and I've worked in Sutton for just over 20 years now, starting off in the early years and working through to acting head of school at Avenue Primary. I was a safeguarding lead for about 15 years. I've been in this role at Cognus for just over five years and currently support schools in meeting statutory safeguarding requirements. I supported training, safeguarding reviews, allegations against staff, preparation for Ofsted and Ofsted complaints, and offering general support and advice. I also sit on the LSCP board with Jo and also various other subgroups with education very much seen as a fourth partner in Sutton. This is our opportunity to ensure the voice of education is heard in any strategic decision making that takes place around safeguarding. In terms of reflective safeguarding supervision, I have to be honest, I used to run away from it, totally avoid it. I didn't want to stop, think or reflect, just keep pushing on. But that changed for me back in 2013 when we were involved in a serious case review. I saw a vulnerability within myself and those around me. And once I engaged in supervision, I never looked back. So in my first year at Cognus, I introduced group reflective safeguarding supervision and worked closely with the EP team. This has been developed into something much bigger over the last 18 months, which I'll talk a bit more about later on. And now I will hand over to Nick to tell you a bit about his background.
SpeakerThank you very much, Hayley, for the introduction there to yourself and all your experiences. I suppose a little bit about my experiences as well. I started out in my kind of career as a care worker for young adults with learning difficulties and who displayed challenging behaviours. And I suppose in that in that time and that space, supervision really wasn't offered as a space or an opportunity. And likewise, from that I became a teacher. And again, h supervision wasn't part of what happened in that teaching space. It's only when I became an educational psychologist that I realised the benefits of supervision, not I suppose, in this very as you kind of uh uh mentioned about actually giving the ability to pause and reflect, which is something that we don't very much do in this kind of very fast-moving world of education. So I think kind of as I say, I think it's very beneficial for actually when we're coming together as an educational psychology and a safeguarding team to actually bring our joint experiences and our joint skills to help support uh this kind of project going forward.
Speaker 6Thank you both for that. That's really helpful. And I hope what comes across here today is the range of experiences and personal engagement and interest in reflective supervision and the power of that in our professional practice. So let's move on now to the topic for today. I'm going to come to you first, Hayley. Would you just like to articulate for us what is reflective safeguarding supervision?
Speaker 5Sure, thanks, Jo. So the purpose of reflective safeguarding supervision is to enable the designated safeguarding leads, safeguarding teams to have a safe space and protected time to reflect on their practice, as well as providing support with emotional well-being. And often we put that to the back of our list. I think we really have to acknowledge how how safeguarding and what comes with that can be emotionally draining and isolating. You can have the biggest team around you, but there are still those times when you feel alone. We're very aware of the complexity of cases being managed by the safeguarding teams in our schools and also the increase in workload. I think supervision provides that safe space for reflection, support, and helps to prevent burnout. When you're you're dealing with safeguarding cases day in, day out, over a period of time, and you're you're juggling all of the other hacks that come with your role, alongside things that can go on in your home life, things can impact you in ways that you didn't expect. And that's where the importance of self-care comes in.
Speaker 6Thanks, Hayley. And I think what what comes through here is this is about putting practitioners first, about putting them at the heart of the conversation because we're so busy thinking about our children and young people, rightly so. But actually, this is about allowing that safe space for our practitioners to decompress. So I want to turn Nick to some of the different models of supervision because I appreciate that there isn't one size fits all, and a lot of this is about other kind of bespoke model for those individuals. Can you tell us a little bit about that?
SpeakerThe psychological models I draw on for these sessions will depend on the themes that come out and also the issues. However, there's certain core features that I like to draw on, particularly when uh when I'm in doing this piece of work. I suppose one model that's very much used is the ecological systems framework, and it's from a psychologist called Brofenbrenner. And it reminds us that safeguarding isn't just about what happens to a child individually, but all the layers and systems around that child and how they all interconnect and interrelate as well. So it gives us a chance to actually look beyond the child, but also those kinds of the kind of themes and the issues around the child. So I think that's a very much with with in our particularly with safeguarding when we look at things that may go on in the home, with schools, with peers, and in a wider society. These are very much a kind of theme that does come out, and I I use that as a kind of a model to frame much of what uh and how I approach this work. Also, kind of in kind of different sessions, as I say, it kind of varies. I kind of tap on uh things like attachment theory as well about how that influences both our own personal stories and also the stories of the young people that we draw draw upon. Related to attachment uh theory, I'd say many concerns are rooted in uh safeguarding concerns are rooted in relationships. Children who have experienced uh haven't experienced consistent responsive care, may struggle to trust adults, regulate their emotions, or seek help safely. In school, they can look like avoidance, defiance, or overcompliance, all protective strategies that make sense in context. Psychologists can help in schools interpret these behaviours through an attachment lens, not as a defence or manipulation, but as a communication of need. Alongside this, we also think about trauma-informed practice as well, which helps us understand how nervous system responds to threats as well. So there's lots of underpinning of what kind we use in each kind of session that comes, uh underpinning practices that we use uh to help consider sessions and themes that come up. So, what I'd like to think about is a little bit about reflective practice and reflective teams. I know Hayley's touched on this, but I think it's very important as well. Safeguarding is emotionally demanding work. DSLs and staff often carry stories and situations that are complex, distressing, and morally challenging as well. One of the most powerful things psychology can offer is time to think by giving reflective spaces where people can process, explore, and make sense of these experiences. And this is where the model of reflective teams comes in, originally from systemic family therapy. It's a it's simple, but I've I've caught I don't like to use this word too often, but I think it's quite transformative. It's when a group reflects together with openness and respect, new meaning and new possibilities can emerge. Uh I suppose the way it goes, uh one person shares a situation and others reflect. We kind of not judging or advising, but to wonder, notice, and and empathise. And then the kind of I then we try and listen quietly and share what's kind of resonated. And I suppose what's happened and what's the aim of it is quite subtle, but I suppose the aim is it helps to reduce anxiety and what you see is new perspective emerges and surfaces. And a group, I suppose, what what helps well what we come together as a DSL group is about that compassionate and creative group that emerges as well. So that's kind of what uh the reflective teams come as well. Another key part of what educational does, and this is what we do in our schoolwork and in a lot of our work where in the systems and the local authorities is we use consultation. And consultation is more than just a simple chat or anything, it's a conversation structured to promote reflection, understanding, and problem solving. And I suppose a lot of my work is rather than just giving direct advice and telling people what to do, it's about working collaboratively with DSLs uh to try and explore what's happening, what might be maintaining this pattern of behaviours, what have you tried, and what shifts things forward for this. And this approach is uh grounded in the consultation model by Patsy Wagner, which EP often you use as the psychologist is not the expert who fixes a problem, but as a thinking partner who helps the system find its own solutions, and that's where the DSL group comes together. The DSL group is the system that helps to find those solutions as well. Rather than trying to come in with an instant fix, it's as a group we come together to look at joint solutions as well.
Speaker 6Thanks, Nick. So what I'm hearing is there's a really interesting uh blended approach to provision that can be put in place. It also recognises the impact of safeguarding on practitioners, it allows space for those practitioners as well as creating a sense of community which focuses on both solutions as well as uh bringing together a sense of compassion because this is a really difficult area that our practitioners are working within. Hayley, if I can turn to you again, could you could you tell me a little bit about the reflective safeguarding supervision offer that we at Cognus provide?
Speaker 5Yeah, so this is something we're really proud of. Um over the last 18 months, we've expanded our reflective safeguarding supervision offer. I think we we saw the impact of the group sessions and we asked for feedback from from schools. And it became clear, you know, people access supervision in a range of ways. The need is there, and we wanted to respond to that and put something together that would work for everyone. Um there's something quite unique about our offer in terms of the group sessions being facilitated by myself with my safeguarding experience and background, but also with an education psychologist who can support with the different psychological um models used. And what we offer, so we now offer group supervision with other schools, bespoke supervision to individual schools and colleges, one-to-one supervision, and that's taken off really well, and also that um need for ad hoc supervision. So we work with out of borough schools and colleges, independent schools as well as primary and secondary, and our offer is also um open to all early year settings. So if it's something anyone's interested in, it really is available for everyone. Um, you can find all of the details on the Cognus website, and if you Google Cognus Reflective Safeguard and Supervision, all of the details are there for you, or you can email us again. Our details are on the website, and we're always happy to have a discussion around what your um supervision needs are. I think um one thing that I'd just like to kind of end this part on is the fact that if you if you hadn't noticed, I could talk about the importance of supervision all day, all night. However, I think it's also important for you to hear from people that actually join our sessions, you know, the people doing the same jobs as you, people that actually uh on the front line, understanding the pressures that are faced and the things you're dealing with. And on our reflective safeguarding supervision page, there are some recorded testimonials, which I'd love for you to listen to if you get the chance, and you'll also be hearing some more from our DSLs a bit later on in the podcast.
Speaker 6Nick, I recognise that uh you work closely alongside Hayley in this supervision offer, and that's quite a unique offering, it's quite a unique selling point that we have that combination. Could you just touch on what you see as the benefits of educational psychologists working closely with the education safeguarding manager to provide reflective supervision?
SpeakerThanks, Jo. I think, as I say, coming together with a DSL manager and an educational psychologist, it really creates a balanced space where it's part practical, part reflective. From my side as an educational psychologist, I'm really interested in helping DSLs step back and think about the emotional side of safeguarding work. As I said before, it can be quite intense, and we're often holding some very, really difficult information and trying to make tough decisions. Supervision gives time to pause, make sense of these experiences, and think about how to stay grounded and resilient. And having a safeguarding manager there means the discussion also stays rooted in procedure and good practice. So it's not just about feelings, but it's also about clarity, confidence, and making sure the right processes are followed. Together, it's a bit like bringing, I suppose, the head and the heart into the same room. The safeguard safeguarding manager, Hayley, supports the operational thinking. And the psychological psychologist helps explore the emotional and relational aspects. And the feedback we often get is that it really helps DSL feel more supportive and reflective, more able to make calm, thoughtful decisions rather than reactive ones. And that ultimately strengthens safeguarding practices right across the school.
Speaker 6To bring the issue of reflective supervision further to life, we thought it important to invite three of our local area designated safeguarding leads to share their thoughts and experiences of the role and the impact of supervision on their professional practice. Before we do that, I'd like to invite each of them to introduce themselves and tell us a little bit about their role. First up, we have Duvessa.
Speaker 2Hi, my name is Duvessa, and I'm the designated safeguarding lead at Wallington County Grammar School. I've been working here at Wallington now for 20 years, and as well as being the DSL, I'm also the deputy head teacher and also Senko. Thanks, Duvessa.
Speaker 6And now to you, Paul.
Speaker 1Hello, yeah, I'm Paul Avery. I'm the deputy principal and DSL at Carshalton Boys. Uh, I've been working here on and off since 1999, um, and it's been a wide and expanding role in all those years.
Speaker 6Great stuff, thanks, Paul. And finally, now to you, Natasha.
Speaker 4Hi, I'm Natasha Edmonds-Chappel. I'm the assistant head teacher and designated safeguard and lead at Hackbridge Primary School. I've been in education for 20 years as a teacher, and I've been the DSL for the last six years.
Speaker 6Wonderful, thanks, Natasha. Now, Hayley, I know you've worked closely with all three of our guests today, so I'm just going to pass to you now.
Speaker 5Great, thank you. Um so you've all accessed our supervision sessions over the last few years and regularly advocate um for supervision in our DSL network meetings. So I just want to ask, so the first question is what safeguarding supervision do you access and why do you think supervision is important? And also touching on the difference that it's made. So, Duvessa, I'm going to come to you first.
Speaker 2So I've been accessing supervision with Hayley on a one-on-one basis, and we roughly did about an hour and a half term. And supervision for me is really important because it gives me a real safe space to help me reflect on my practices. Um, I'm able to discuss actions I've taken or practices with Hayley, receive guidance, reassurance quite a lot of the time from Hayley on yeah, that was great. It's it's a space where I feel that it's really non-judgmental. We've got essentially Hayley and I who deeply care about your kids and the lives of kids and having a positive impact. So going on that journey with someone that's also passionate about what you do just makes it even more special. Um, I think for me, it's a really important time to be reflective, but it's also important because it helps us as a school create a culture of where safeguarding is constantly being assessed and evaluated and reflected on. In terms of for me, it's really helped fill my emotional bucket. And I've said this to Hayley time and time again. I would not be the teacher, the DSL, the mum or the wife if I didn't have Hayley by my side. Because having that opportunity to have a safe space where I can talk to her means that I can then not bring things home and I can be a better mum and a better wife as well as a better practitioner and leader. I'm very open with the kids at Wallington and with the staff at Wallington that I have supervision because I feel that it creates a culture of modelling whereby it is okay to have someone support you in a role when you are dealing with difficult decisions. And I believe it's really important to have that culture where you're being open about what you are receiving support and guidance for, to the point where the deputy DSLs have also signed up to have supervision with Healy. And Hayley, Jack has just said at lunchtime today, he's had one session with you on already, he just feels a little bit lighter, just that he knows that there's someone at the end of the phone, at the end of an email, at the end of a camera that gets it because Hayley's done it, been in there and has walked walked the walk, talk the talk type of thing. I know that the deputy DSLs has talked have talked about confidence that Hayley gives them the comp the confidence. But all in all, for me, I I don't miss my supervision. I mean I move other meetings around, but I don't move my Hayley time because for me that's crucial to my own mental health and my own well-being.
Speaker 5Thank you so much, Duvessa, and and it's so you know, it really does feel quite special, I think, to talk about the impact that it has on people. And of course, we can have our hopes for what supervision will bring, and it brings very different things to different people. Obviously, you're accessing the one-to-one supervision, and we offer that with the education safeguarding manager, or you can sign up to have that from an EP. And I think just getting the balance right and doing what's right for you is what really matters. So thank you so much for sharing. Um, Paul, I'm gonna come on to you.
Speaker 1Thank you, Hayley. Yeah, I've been a DSL now for nearly 20 years, um, and the role has just changed phenomenally. Phenomenally. And in the last seven years, I've never done anything more challenging in my entire life. Um, and it's getting harder and harder, and I've openly admitted in DSL meetings that I've never cried so much as I have done in the last in a number of parent meetings because of the role. Um, I'm lucky I have Simon and Jenny, my principals, who offer day-to-day supervision, um, which allows me to talk about school stuff. But Hayley and the supervision I you offered me in the last few years as a group has allowed me to listen to other DSLs, reflect on my own practice, give advice, hopefully, and receive advice from other DSLs. Um, but also Hayley, the supervision you offer me personally, if I call up and say, look, I'm dealing with this, you're always there on the phone, and it's just good to bounce ideas off, um, as the fessor said, reflect on my own practices and allow me to clear my headspace before I leave the school or go home. Um, being a PE teacher, I also rely on sport heavily, but as I'm a teaching the old years and my less youthful sporting abilities, supervision has taken on more of a role that sport used to play for me. And I think Hayley, without the support you've given me and the supervision in the last two years, I'm not sure I would still be in role because it is so hard and the advice. And the information that you've given us, and I do believe the group sessions have been brilliant. And as the Vesta said, I've encouraged my deputy DSLs, and I know one of them has signed up for this year for the supervision supervision sessions. It is invaluable. And I would recommend it to any new DSL, any deputy DSL. And as Duvessa says, I encourage all staff to find someone that they can talk to before they go home to their families. And when I did work at a different school, that was quite good coming home to my wife and talking to her about a different school. But working in the same school supervision has allowed me to stay married for 20 years as well. So I'm not sure my wife would be happy, but I am happy. So yeah, I can't praise or recommend it enough. One-to-one and group sessions.
Speaker 5Thank you so much, Paul. And it's great having all of you here because you all do access very different types of supervision. And I know, Paul, you were talking about the ad hoc and a lot of the one-to-one, which again is either done by myself or an EP. That's you know uh what's available. Um, and I think it's just like you said, it's the complex cases that we're dealing with. We know that things have changed, we know that the workload has kind of increased, and there are DSLs wearing a number of different hats. And I think just this is what we were hoping. We don't want anyone to feel alone in dealing with what they're dealing with, and actually sometimes those complex cases need to be just talked through, broken down, and there's always that other kind of opinion, or sometimes you're too close to a case. Um, so yeah, you want to come in again, Paul?
Speaker 1Yeah, I think you touched on it there. I think it will be, although it does say in KCSIE to keep DSLs as a single role, you'll be very hard-stretched to find a single DSL now where you are just a DSL with shortage of teachers, leadership roles. We are all multifaceted in what we're doing in school. DSL is our my passion, and it is our passion, but it's not a singular role. And actually, developing young DSLs and encouraging them along with supervision is is crucial to have a wider team now.
Speaker 5Thank you so much. And Tash, I'm going to come to you, and I think it's it's good because again, you've accessed the group supervision from the start, and and as I've said, what's unique about our offer is that we have the EP service and myself facilitating those sessions. So I'd be really interested to hear um the types of supervision you access and why it's important to you.
Speaker 4Yeah, so the group I've been accessing the group supervision with yourself, Hayley, and the EP. And for me, that gives like a real rounded uh like opinion of you on what we're doing. So when we're saying things and we're overwhelmed sometimes, the EP is coming at it from a quite holistic well-being um angle, and you're you're you you too come at it at that angle, but also you are coming at it from a a DSL as well and a safeguarding angle. So it's it is a real balance to the group and it helps. Um it's a it's such a mixed group, and I've been coming for quite a few years now, and every year there's a few familiar faces, but there's always new people either new to the role or just new to safeguarding or they've changed days, and that's really interesting for me to get perspectives from different um colleagues across the borough and sometimes outside of the borough, um, and to share our experiences. And I've been always been very honest at Supervision. Sometimes I come feeling quite empty with my cup quite full, feeling like I'm a bit of an imposter and don't have anything to offer, and then suddenly have quite a lot of knowledge that I can share. And then sometimes I've come with a real burning desire to talk about one particular case that I need some to problem solve. And I've always come away with um sort of ideas or links or people I can go and talk to. So I found that really helpful. I've been very emotional at times and I've openly cried or we've cried together, which has been really supportive, and we've laughed and joked, and we've always kind of ended the sessions thinking about what next, how are we going to look after ourselves, how are we going to move forward. I think for me the difference has been building that network. So I now feel like I've got different people in different pots that I can reach out to at different times. We've shared resources. I made a resource on prevent, I was able to share that with colleagues. So we're helping each other with workload, which is brilliant. Um, and that, yeah, feeling lighter after I'm I've left and being able to problem solve for me. That's the most powerful part of supervision. And it's protected time. My colleagues all at school know it's on the school calendar. It says a DSL supervision, nobody calls me during that time. It's that one hour, one-to-half term where I'm protected and it and everybody feels the same, and that gives a really positive view across the school on what supervision is, and it means that then colleagues will come to me for their supervision. So it kind of works both ways.
Speaker 5Thank you so much for sharing. So I only have one more question for you, and I know that you've all touched on bits of this. Um, so why should people sign up to safeguarding supervision? And and what is it they need to know if they're feeling a bit apprehensive or unsure? And Duvessa, I'll come to you first again.
Speaker 2We matter. We we really matter in the jobs that we do. We give 100% to the kids in our care. And actually, it's really important for us to step back and go, we need to take time out so that we can be, we've talked about this before, emotionally filled, in order for us to go and help these kids. So I think as practitioners, we're really great at giving staff advice and kids advice and parents' advice about looking after yourself and taking time out. But actually, we need to do that as well, so that we can then carry on being that strength and being being those pillars for those people, those people that need us. So for me, it's about we owe it to ourselves, we deserve it. That this is something that's so important for us. Um, and I also think as well that safeguarding should just be that golden thread that runs through your school, runs through everything. So, actually, to have that culture of safeguarding in your school, this is just part of it. So for me, it it's it's essentially a no-brainer, Hayley. That's brilliant. I love that. Thank you. And and Paul.
Speaker 1Well, I always think about if there's a problem on the plane, an oxygen mask comes down. They always say put yours on first, then help people around you. And this is what supervision is: it's the oxygen mask for you. It it allows you space, time to be so that you can come back stronger to look after the other people around you. And everyone needs that oxygen mask now and again. Everyone, doesn't matter who you are, and if people around you see you doing it, they have more confidence to do it themselves. Um, and the thing I would say is do it. There's no judgment, there's no, oh what they didn't know this or they didn't know that, there's no, oh, he was upset or they were upset. It's it's everyone listens to everyone. There's always advice, and anyone's happy to listen to your advice. Um, but yeah, the keep it is you put the oxygen mask on you, then you're fit and healthy to help everyone else around you.
Speaker 5Thank you so much, and last but not least, Natasha.
Speaker 4Yes, for me, I feel um it is essential, like Duvessa and Paul have already said, it's an essential part of me being able to fulfil my role successfully and lead safeguarding across the school, but also it's my protected space and safe space to um to speak to colleagues outside of the school. So while it's amazing I've got such an supportive team around me, I feel it's really important that I also have um, I can't remember the word that I'm looking for, sorry. It's really important for me to have um unbiased views, um, neutral opinions on what's going on, because sometimes we're so emotionally invested that we don't always see the wood through the trees, and actually being able to have those colleagues from outside of it looking in just gives us a different angle on things. So for me, it's it's essential to being able to move forward in my role.
Speaker 5Thank you so much, Tash. I think as I said earlier in the podcast, hearing from DSLs, taking on the feedback has meant absolutely everything to us and helped us to develop the service in a way that has the biggest impact and helps people the most. Something we always say across the DSL networking in Sutton, is that we're in this together. And I think reflective safeguarding supervision really does endorse that.
Speaker 6And thank you so much again to Duvessa, Paul, and Natasha for your fantastic passion and insight into the area of reflective practice. Um, I'd like to bring this podcast to a close now, albeit this is a subject that I know we could all talk about for quite some time. I'd like to thank again all of my colleagues who have taken time out to join me today and to share their views and experience of reflective supervision. As I'm sure you can hear, it's certainly something that we here at Cognus and across Sutton feel really passionately about. We'd love to hear your views on the subject, so do reach out to us via social media platforms or by emailing us here at the contact details today in the show notes. To find out more about the Cognus Reflective Safeguarding Supervision offer, please visit our safeguarding page on the Cognus website. Here you'll find more details on what we can offer, more information on our facilitators, supervision testimonials, articles in support of supervision, practice spotlight recognition, and cognus in general. Thank you for listening to Education Untapped, and we'll see you again next time.